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Thread: THP engine breakage: Turbo + timing chain + power loss on acceleration + cold-start

  1. #1

    Default THP engine breakage: Turbo + timing chain + power loss on acceleration + cold-start

    This site is a small gathering of people experiencing distribution problems on THP 1.6 engines. (EP6 PRINCE 1.6)
    A shift in the distribution appear gradually and results in destruction of the engine.
    At best your engine will go into degraded mode and operate with reduced power, the worse it will break.

    http://distributionthp.free.fr/index...n_view_eng.php

    PETITION: http://distributionthp.free.fr/


    Others sources:

    http://www.peugeotcentral.co.uk/ftopic-10392.html (207 THP/GT)

    http://www.peugeotforums.com/forums/...-07-reg-14430/ (207 GT)

    http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...in-issues.html (MINI COOPER S & J C WORKS )


    This is a transcript of a Radio France emission: In France we are starting to get the problem recognised; we are fighting to be heard.

    A Jean Remy MACCHIA Chronicle:

    Gasoline engine Peugeot-CitroŽn / Mini 1.6l question regarding reliablilty:


    This is not an epidenic, nor a sacrifice (not sure of that bit) as with the 1.5l DCI engine from Renault installed on the Scenic and Grand Scenic 2003-2004. None the less there is some repetitivity to the technical fault which affects the functioning of this 1.6l engine.
    An engine you will find on some CitroŽn C3, C4, C5, DS 3, DS 4, and also on some Peugeot 207, 308, 3008, 508, 5008, and on all of the Minis.

    What's happening to this engine?

    A concern over the timing chain. The metal timing chain is an engineering choice made in place of a rubber timing belt, to eliminate the risk of breakage, and is expected to last the life of the car without any signifigant maintenance.
    On this modern engine released in 2006, there is in fact a concern over the hydraulic timing chain tensioner.

    First you hear a metalic sound. More often in cold weather. At the start the noise goes away as the engine warms up.

    At this point one should already be alerting the brand representative (a Mini SA for us)

    Otherwise the concerns become worse...?

    Exactly. If you don't visit the representative, the noises amplify, with clacking that doesn't go away once the engine has warmed up.

    Now you have an engine where the timing chain is not held in place properly. This allows the valves to open out of synch...
    In the end you have an engine that doesn't work correctly, with losses in power, and it can go worse.

    First, you can have a badly worn timing chain (''stretched'' more precisely?), which will require replacement, but that's not the worst that can happen.

    There is a risk of engine failure, a low risk, but it did happen to Frťdťric. To his 207.

    How are the manufacturers involved responding?

    Meaning CitroŽn, Peugeot and BMW - on their Mini model. First they minimise the extent of the problem. Even if the engine failures aren't frequent, they do happen none the less to some cars, and particularly to those that have a turbo. For example on some CitroŽn or Peugeot ę THP Ľ and the Mini Cooper S.

    At the factory, the tensioner in question was modified in 2010.
    After sale, the attitudes differ amongst the 3 manufacturers.
    Replacement of the tensioner costs between 180-200 Ä.
    Replacing the chain costs between 700 and 950 Ä, and all these "cures" are only partially covered by the manufacturers. This despite insistant calls to After Sales Services (Warranty department?).
    And the responsibility taken, if there is an engine to change, is only partial.

    Podcast --> http://rf.proxycast.org/m/media/2420...20284426-0.mp3

  2. #2
    Prestige karl THP is on a distinguished road
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    Oh dear !

  3. #3
    Banned Hannah is on a distinguished road
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    What about the numerous reports of detonation and blown piston rings/valves/holed cylinders?

  4. #4

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    has any of this ever happened to a DS3? As the changes were made in 2010 you would think our engine was sorted. It hasn't stopped people buying m#n#'s. it would be all over the papers. Unless Hannah at Citroen knows different (tell all on sunday)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah View Post
    What about the numerous reports of detonation and blown piston rings/valves/holed cylinders?
    +1
    (5character limit?
    +2345
    cyclone> Fish is the man

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    Prestige DS379 is on a distinguished road
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    This would explain why my timing chain was replaced as soon as my turbo was dropping out but it never fixed it. The fault was then linked to the head gasket blowing and then to the cylinder head. Once they were both changed the problem was and is still there.

    how interesting . . .

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    Ultra Prestige Member Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet has a reputation beyond repute Bigfeet's Avatar
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    If this was ever a stronger case for 'Camp Diesel' then I don't know what is!
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  9. #9
    Prestige karl THP is on a distinguished road
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    should i be worried with my 60 plate THP ??
    i dont fancy any of this happening to my car :-/

  10. #10
    Prestige marioiturri is on a distinguished road marioiturri's Avatar
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    Sorry to bring this thread up, just wondering if they have ever upgraded the engine to avoid these problems.

    Thanks

  11. #11
    Prestige xavier2k12 is an unknown quantity at this point xavier2k12's Avatar
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    children deseases? Such a pitty for such a beautiful car

  12. #12

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    I've written to citroen demanding (in a nice way) to extend my 4th year warranty for free. Bet's I dont hear back?
    The car is currently in the garage being fixed, again.....

    I will speak to the dealer tomorrow about making an official complaint/requesting a free warranty extention.

  13. #13

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    Hi,

    First ever post...
    My ds3 thp is currently in the garage over the above issues. At first they stated that an oil change would solve it. I'm now waiting for Cuk to make a decision on the matter. Hope this isn't the start of a 'chain' of problems

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    Prestige Member Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue has a reputation beyond repute Chris_Blue's Avatar
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    Hi GriffLah- welcome to the club
    What years you DS3? Hope all goes well
    CBLUE

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    Prestige lee1101 is on a distinguished road lee1101's Avatar
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    Have any of these issues been reported cars built from 2012 onwards?

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GriffLah View Post
    Hi,

    First ever post...
    My ds3 thp is currently in the garage over the above issues. At first they stated that an oil change would solve it. I'm now waiting for Cuk to make a decision on the matter. Hope this isn't the start of a 'chain' of problems
    This is what pisses me off with CUK they know there is a problem and just dick about instead of changing the lot in one go ,it saves the owner all the grief and agro time and time again.

    When I had all the crap with my motor I never got a ohh sorry sir once!! all I was told is "thats what your warranty is for"

    The amount of money I spent driving backwards and forwards to the dealer time off work etc etc ...................but I feel i was lucky coz the dealer I use is on the ball and were very helpful,some are not

    Funny thing is the myway radio satnav is playing up with different probs and I have been back 3 times and had various things done to cure the prob ..........one call to CUK and they came across with next service free Sir ............................Kerching!!!!!! 40.000 service for nought saved me about 350-400 quid so at the mo I am slightly up

    I still like the car though

  17. #17

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    The car is Oct 2011. Only has 8000 on the clock. My dealer is quite good though. Replaced the wheels when I pointed out they had corrosion near the centre cap straight away. Lets hope they sort this out?
    Apart from this problem I do love the car.

  18. #18
    Prestige marioiturri is on a distinguished road marioiturri's Avatar
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    That's exactly what I am looking for.
    I am trying to anticipate what I might be getting into lol.

    Please guys, can you tell us what year is your car, Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by lee1101 View Post
    Have any of these issues been reported cars built from 2012 onwards?

  19. #19
    Prestige Member monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts has a reputation beyond repute monkeynuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioiturri View Post
    That's exactly what I am looking for.
    I am trying to anticipate what I might be getting into lol.

    Please guys, can you tell us what year is your car, Thanks!
    Mine is a 10 plate

  20. #20

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    10 plate also

  21. #21
    High-Tech Support Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioiturri View Post
    That's exactly what I am looking for.
    I am trying to anticipate what I might be getting into lol.

    Please guys, can you tell us what year is your car, Thanks!
    Full engine rebuild for me. 2010 plate.
    cyclone> Fish is the man

  22. #22

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    Dealers wont give me any error codes because citreon say no.... not allowed.
    Right, who do I complain to about the engine issues? Ive already written to cit 2 weeks ago and have not heard back. 3 weeks left on warranty....

  23. #23
    High-Tech Support Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish has a reputation beyond repute Dangerousfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beck_4ever View Post
    Dealers wont give me any error codes because citreon say no.... not allowed.
    Right, who do I complain to about the engine issues? Ive already written to cit 2 weeks ago and have not heard back. 3 weeks left on warranty....
    There's plenty of apps out there to review the error codes yourself, a lot of local mechanics could check it for you too. Perhaps stop by one of them after it's juddered when you have the car back to check.

    There's no reason why Citroen wouldn't give you the error codes on your car unless they're planning to implement a fix that won't fix the issue in my eyes.
    cyclone> Fish is the man

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerousfish View Post
    There's plenty of apps out there to review the error codes yourself, a lot of local mechanics could check it for you too. Perhaps stop by one of them after it's juddered when you have the car back to check.

    There's no reason why Citroen wouldn't give you the error codes on your car unless they're planning to implement a fix that won't fix the issue in my eyes.
    The lady at the dealers was nice enough to tell me that the error codes DO relate to the juddering.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by beck_4ever View Post
    The lady at the dealers was nice enough to tell me that the error codes DO relate to the juddering.
    The error codes should actually tell you what's faulty though i.e. super knock(more than likely the case)
    cyclone> Fish is the man

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